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Strange clutch problem

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ben0307

Post subject: Strange clutch problem

Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:13 pm

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Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:15 pm
Posts: 98

Just fitted 2.0 zetec engine and another gearbox to my 1995 fiesta 1.6 Si, along with a new clutch kit. Now the travel on the clutch pedal is incorrect - I only get the bottom inch or so of movement. Problem is at the gearbox end, not the pedal / cable, as the clutch arm on the top of the gearbox sits way too far back with no cable connected. The arm can't be rotated on the shaft of the clutch fork, as there is a master spline so it only fits in one position.

The parts I have are:
2.0 zetec engine from 1996 mondeo.
Gearbox from another fiesta 1.6 si.
Clutch fork that came with the gearbox.
Flywheel from a 1997 escort 1.8 zetec.
Original fiesta si tin plate between engine and gearbox.
New LUK clutch kit for fiesta si, part number 622 1285 00.

Microcat suggests that the escort flywheel is exactly the same as the fiesta one, and that all of the clutch forks are the same.

Had the flywheel skimmed to remove the wear mark from the 210mm escort clutch (was fairly minimal, but didn't want to put the 220mm fiesta clutch on to this surface, especially with the extra power of the 2.0 engine). I wouldn't expect the small amount skimmed off to account for the difference I am seeing.

I believe the clutch should be a 'low lift' type. The old clutch plate was marked low lift. LUK have told me that their clutches are only marked low lift if bought from ford and not from a motor factors (which would explain why I don't remember seeing low lift on the new parts). The part numbers on the clutch box match the correct parts in the LUK catalogue.

I can't really leave the car with the gearbox out for more than a day or so, so need to get it solved quickly when the gearbox comes out again.

As far as I can see it should all work correctly. Anyone got any ideas what it could be, or seen anything similar before?

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big g1985

Post subject: Re: Strange clutch problem

Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:22 pm

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Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:56 pm
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check the adjuster on the the clutch pedal

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will121

Post subject: Re: Strange clutch problem

Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:20 am

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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:43 pm
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Location: Norwich
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When you say clutch lever sits to far back with cable disconnected, can you measure it from the cable restrainer bracket or take a photo, I will compare it to mine, as said above is it adjusting up on the peddle ok?

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Jamie88

Post subject: Re: Strange clutch problem

Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:36 pm

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Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:34 am
Posts: 2378
Location: surrey/redhill
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As said, sounds like the pedal isn't adjusted properly, should be a white screw on the pedal which you unscrew then push in with ur finger which will make the pedal drop then tighten the white screw back up area turns, not all the way, then pull the pedal up the the height you want and fully tighten the screw

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ben0307

Post subject: Re: Strange clutch problem

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:52 pm

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Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:15 pm
Posts: 98

Sorry for the slow reply - been away over the weekend.
Will double check the adjuster (though fairly sure it's the gearbox end), and try to get some photos over the next couple of days.

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ben0307

Post subject: Re: Strange clutch problem

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:26 am

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Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:15 pm
Posts: 98

Managed to get some photos...

With cable disconnected, and arm pushed until you can feel the release bearing touch the clutch.

Cable connected, pedal released:

Cable connected, pedal pressed (note cable is nearly at the limit of it's movement):

Here is where the pedal sits (ignore lack of throttle pedal - the cable is not connected):

I looked at the adjuster, and it is already near to one end, so there's not much scope for making the cable tighter (but plenty of scope for making it looser, which is the opposite of what is required). Difficult to photograph, but I think this shows it:

Looking at the length of the cable at the gearbox end, and the position of the adjuster, I still think the fault is at the gearbox end and not pedal adjustment, but happy to hear everyone's opinions.

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DanFraser

Post subject: Re: Strange clutch problem

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:12 am

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Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 3:40 pm
Posts: 877

Either the wrong clutch cable was put on, or the pedal adjustment has buggered up. The lever arm on the gearbox itself is in the correct position so it becomes short cable or wrong position on the adjuster.

In that last picture, can you actually move it up by hand? If not it definitely without a doubt is the cable length or the adjuster. If you can get that pedal up to a testable position, do so, as the low-lift thing is completely new to me.

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will121

Post subject: Re: Strange clutch problem

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:09 am

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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:43 pm
Posts: 888
Location: Norwich
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I think that from picture with cable disconnected and lever again release bearing that it is problem in clutch as doesn't look enough movement left, possible overall distance incorrect, could be, release bearing, clutch or flywheel dimensions. You say leaver is on correct spline as can only go in one place?

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ben0307

Post subject: Re: Strange clutch problem

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:42 pm

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Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:15 pm
Posts: 98

Thanks guys. I'll be having another look at it on thursday evening...

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ben0307

Post subject: Re: Strange clutch problem

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:57 pm

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Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:15 pm
Posts: 98

Think I am finally getting to the bottom of this.

First to eliminate a few things:
1. Clutch cable has not been changed. Was working fine before the engine swap, so I know it's correct.

2. Clutch arm can only go in one position - photo below shows there is a master spline, and also the bolt can only fit in one place.

3. If the clutch arm is pushed fully forwards, so the release bearing is fully retracted towards the gearbox, the fork that moves the release bearing will contact the gearbox casing. If the gearbox, clutch arm and fork are all the same then the arm should always stop in the same position. I measured the distance between the cable fitting on the arm, and the cable outer mounting on the gearbox casing, and got the same result for both old and new gearboxes. Think this eliminates a bent / different clutch fork.

Then I remembered I had taken a photo of the escort flywheel before fitting. Just taken a photo of the original fiesta flywheel to compare, and they are different.

Newly skimmed escort flywheel:

Original fiesta flywheel:

Photos only really show that the centre is different, and don't prove that the thickness is different, but it seems the most likely explanation.

Looks like the gearbox will be coming out again at the weekend, and I will measure the flywheels...

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will121

Post subject: Re: Strange clutch problem

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:26 pm

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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:43 pm
Posts: 888
Location: Norwich
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Be interesting to find out what problem is now

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Tonwah

Post subject: Re: Strange clutch problem

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:29 pm

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Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:52 pm
Posts: 431
Location: Plymouth
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1ST of all i would scrap off that clutch arm on the gearbox and replace it with a solid lever from an earlier fiesta, then i'd reset or replace the rachet and pawl

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ben0307

Post subject: Re: Strange clutch problem

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:21 pm

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Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:15 pm
Posts: 98

Took the flywheel out to measure today. The difference between the old and new flywheels is minimal though. The tiny difference is probably just the material removed when it was skimmed. Re-assembled with the old flywheel anyway, and it was basically just the same.

Then looked again at the adjuster on the pedal, and we had clearly misunderstood how it works. When the white knob on the pedal is unscrewed, it can then be pressed to release the pawl from the quadrant (in much the same way as the button on a handbrake). I thought the adjuster was near to the end of it's range, but there were sufficient teeth left to allow the pedal position to be corrected, and give a full clutch pedal. There was also sufficient travel remaining at the gearbox end of the cable, so it now seems to be working fine.

So everyone who said it was pedal adjustment was correct. We should have had a better look at this before needlessly taking the gearbox out again, but I guess it's easy with hindsight. Thanks to everyone for your help anyway. Glad it now appears to be sorted.

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Jamie88

Post subject: Re: Strange clutch problem

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:41 pm

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Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:34 am
Posts: 2378
Location: surrey/redhill
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ben0307

Post subject: Re: Strange clutch problem

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:44 pm

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Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:15 pm
Posts: 98

The old flywheel was perfectly good, so hoping the gearbox is in for good this time! The skimmed one was a spare - only had it skimmed as there was some wear on it from being used with a smaller diameter clutch. Thought it would be better to have a known good flywheel to hand than being delayed if the existing one also needed skimming (which it turned out it didn't).

Looking forward to getting the car running again - not much left to do now - just injectors and inlet manifold really.

The skimmed flywheel will likely be up for sale once the car is up and running.

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