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 Post subject: Re: Citroen 1, Ford 0...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:32 pm 
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same with the 1.4 turbo renault 5 gt. i miss the good old cars. they where so straight to the point lol

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 Post subject: Re: Citroen 1, Ford 0...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:53 pm 
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Basically ford need to make a new fiesta that isn't made in china and mexico, isn't made out of plastic. And has a RSTurbo model. ?

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 Post subject: Re: Citroen 1, Ford 0...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:55 pm 
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The Loumiester wrote:
i think you should go off bhp not engine capacity when classing cars because the starlett glanza would probably crap over evrything being a 1.3 turbo lol


Maybe in a straight line. ;) If we're talking 1.3's, I'd like to bring the RX-7 into discussion... :halo: :lol:

Have to agree, the Fiesta ST of late should be compared to the Clio that was also released around the same time.

Remember though guys, it's all a much of muchness and not really worth this much debate surely. :lol:

Can someone spark some interesting debate about other cars for once. I'm kind of getting sick of reading about all this shizer, and annoyed with myself that I actually bother to read threads like this :red:

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 Post subject: Re: Citroen 1, Ford 0...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:37 pm 
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rotory engine is cheating lol

the fiesta is good in its own ways, i know of people beating astra vxr's on track in there fiesta st because it can handle better

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 Post subject: Re: Citroen 1, Ford 0...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:53 pm 
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Aren't the Astra's known for some terrible under steer at times? Or maybe I've heard that from internet users that drive worse than me. :? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Citroen 1, Ford 0...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:01 pm 
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its true, they have alot of power but no decent way of putting it in corners at speed. do they even have a lsd?

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 Post subject: Re: Citroen 1, Ford 0...
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:59 am 
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Percy wrote:
meilack wrote:
red one is so much better then my blue one though


I see you have watched the topgear comparison again...

The build quality arguement just doesn't hold up anymore, yes 10 years ago the ford would have been better, but is there any differnce these days? Out of interest how many times has you ST been back and how many times has my C2 been back? I do remember Mole and OP needing to take theres back too..... build quality....


:blahblah: im yawning about the whole C2 vs ST thing. I like mine, you like yours. I like my ps3, you like your xbox. variety is the spice of life. and bias is gonna happen no matter what. :)

My ST has been back to ford and again its going back tomorrow. i dont think its build quality. i thinks its down to neglect of the previous owner. my car has been ragged. and you can tell. even the glass is scratched badly in places. I shouldnt have bought it. I thought this yesterday when i put more oil in it. :doh:

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 Post subject: Re: Citroen 1, Ford 0...
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:14 pm 
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percy i dont know what your're problem is but its winding me up

3 up i was on a clio 172's arse upto 120mph, which is a speed that you don't hit that often and that is a 2.0 french hatch, whic is the pinnacle of all cars......

It handles well regardless of what you say aswell

Op sory to hear, update us on how it goes :)

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RIP BEN ELVIN (JAM) 6.6.84 - 3.10.12 - Gone but not forgotten - The below sums you up chap
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 Post subject: Re: Citroen 1, Ford 0...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:20 am 
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Seriously its great debate BUT percy bums citroen because he loves french and believes it is much much better than ford

As me and adam bum Fords because we love their cars, mainly from the classics they first provided us with and now we all own newer versions of these

Percy i know that your car has 25bhp down and 400cc less so its unfairly compared but at the end of the day Ford made the Fiesta with 148bhp for a reason, to keep costs for the owners down, as can be seen from other mods aftermarket they could have made the car with more Hp should they so wished

Put simply the Fiesta ST is 38mpg, group 13 insurance, tax £175 year

Clio 182 is 34mpg, group 16/17 insurance, tax £215 year

Clio 172 is 34mpg, group 16/17 insurance, tax £215 year

As you can see the ST may be a tad slower but its cheaper to run in all cases, hence Ford kept the power down from the 2.0 although they could of done more, as it would attract people who wanted a great handling car but without soo much power that it made them completely peniless which is important when your young :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Citroen 1, Ford 0...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:19 pm 
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I see what you say about reasons about why its rubbish for a 2.0. But in that case why make it a 2.0? yes it maybe a bit much for a 1.6 but it could have been a 1.8 with 150bhp to which I guess it may go down on insurance and get slightly better mpg.

The thing ford don't seem capable of making a 1.6 at 125bhp or a 2.0 at 182bhp.

To me as soon as a company puts a 2.0 in a hatchback the sensible angle should be lost, go all out (like the clio's) and make an amazing car and make some snappy 1.6's to be more sensible and insurance friendly etc.

Yes make compromises when making cars, but not on you top model.

Can you honestly say that it wouldn't be better that instead of an underpowered 2.0 you had say 3 models:
1.6 120-130bhp insurance 7-9
1.8 145-155bhp insurance 12-14
2.0 175-185bhp insurance 15-17

That way they would have the 1.6 which I would have probably bought due to insurance, the 1.8 for those who want a bit more without getting murdered on insurance and the 2.0 for those who just want the best.

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 Post subject: Re: Citroen 1, Ford 0...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:53 pm 
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I know what your saying percy but we buy cars (this applies to alot of manufacturers not just once) from car companies who at the end of the day are businesses out to make a profit

Saving where they can keeps the shareholders happy, if they can transfer a mondeo engine over to the fiesta to give it 150bhp they will saves grabbing their 1.8 or 1.6 and tuning it up or changing it to get a turbo, lazy i know but think of it really as this site and a common mod

Alot of people switch their 1.6 for a mondeo 2.0 as its cheap, easy to get hold off and goes in without much trouble

If you were to modify the 1.6, put a turbo in it, or get a 1.8 and do the same to get your power it would take more effort and no doubt more money than for instance my car which was a £195 mondeo to upgrade

Money saving tactics obv, but there you go

At the end of the day i owned a Fiesta ST and i wouldn't mind again, as mine was reliable, revved up to 6.5 grand, was a great handling car and would cost £10 a month more to insure than a C2, and although the interior isn't brilliant the exterior looks better

But then again if there was one car i could have again would be my Focus ST Cruiser :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Citroen 1, Ford 0...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:06 pm 
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Thank you Mr Mole for bringing this back into a normal discussion, as it is I think you have hit nail on the head.

Ford isn't about the cars anymore, its about the margins. Why make a mighty 1.6 or 1.8 when you can downtune a 2.0.

Meanwhile, if you look at the clio's, I can guess that renault make more money selling 1.2's than they do selling 2.0's, but this hasn't stopped them pushing the 2.0 harder each generation and making one of the best available.

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 Post subject: Re: Citroen 1, Ford 0...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:09 pm 
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Percy wrote:
Can you honestly say that it wouldn't be better that instead of an underpowered 2.0 you had say 3 models:
1.6 120-130bhp insurance 7-9
1.8 145-155bhp insurance 12-14
2.0 175-185bhp insurance 15-17

Since when do manufactures give a toss once the car rolls off the forecourt.

It's a cost thing.

Use an existing 2.0 block, and keep it safe and de-tuned.

What compression ratio does the ST run?? Bet it's a darn sight lower than the Clios.

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 Post subject: Re: Citroen 1, Ford 0...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:41 pm 
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woodsy_mv6 wrote:
Percy wrote:
Can you honestly say that it wouldn't be better that instead of an underpowered 2.0 you had say 3 models:
1.6 120-130bhp insurance 7-9
1.8 145-155bhp insurance 12-14
2.0 175-185bhp insurance 15-17

Since when do manufactures give a toss once the car rolls off the forecourt.

It's a cost thing.

Use an existing 2.0 block, and keep it safe and de-tuned.

What compression ratio does the ST run?? Bet it's a darn sight lower than the Clios.


Not sure on exact ratios but i think you're right woods

Woods has a point though running a safer setup is bound to improve reliability and renaults aren't well known for their electrics so i suppose it would be something to watch

I wouldnt have called it de-tuned (the ST engine) but its not actually tuned much at all, the standard 2.0 is 145PS and the ST version is 150PS

Another point there though is the fact that like the new fiesta, the old fiesta will have sold mostly the 1.2, 1.6 versions

Whats more its been proven that the 2.0 Duratec can be NA tuned for 190HP anyway so Ford if they so wished could make a Fiesta to match the top clio if they wished but either don't want that image or don't want to spend the money

Either way new citroens and peugeots are damn ugly these days, and now with the new fiesta ford are going for the idea, i can't tell a corsa from a fiesta, micra,207 or any of the other superminis

At the end of the day get a fiesta ST and put a K&N on it like mine had and thats 164bhp, nearly 40 more than your C2 job done, no need to argue then :insanity:

Whats more whens this New ST gonna turn up?

And wheres the fiesta185 vs clio182 comparison :)

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 Post subject: Re: Citroen 1, Ford 0...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:19 pm 
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i'm notgoing to get involved anymore

i'm sick of this crap tbh

i've kept up with a clio172, but i can't insult the frenchiescan i :rolleyes:

i like french hatches, just not french electrics :P

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RIP BEN ELVIN (JAM) 6.6.84 - 3.10.12 - Gone but not forgotten - The below sums you up chap
Ben Elvin "Jam" wrote:
Through serious illness you meet some inspiring and determined people. its the best we can do as human beings to inspire and drive the determination of others. Ben.


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 Post subject: Re: Citroen 1, Ford 0...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:25 pm 
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I will keep up with an ST, keeping up isn't enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Citroen 1, Ford 0...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:43 pm 
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how's that then? :hmm:

clio's are not the be all or end all, nor are ST's or C2's :)

My ST is more open to modification due to its detuned engine :)

205bhp na from cams, inlet, manifold sports cat and exhaust system with a induction kit is hardly bad and they rev to 8200rpm (with torque) in that guise :)

where's the ST185 comparison then?

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Ford is not a decision you make to like, its a passion you grow up with.


RIP BEN ELVIN (JAM) 6.6.84 - 3.10.12 - Gone but not forgotten - The below sums you up chap
Ben Elvin "Jam" wrote:
Through serious illness you meet some inspiring and determined people. its the best we can do as human beings to inspire and drive the determination of others. Ben.


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 Post subject: Re: Citroen 1, Ford 0...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:01 pm 
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Is the ST185 a ford production road model?

If not we can compare it to a V6 C2 I know of.

I buy cars based on what they are, not what they can become.

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 Post subject: Re: Citroen 1, Ford 0...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:10 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Citroen 1, Ford 0...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:39 pm 
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Percy and Meilack in Lovers Tiff Shocker! :shock: :shock: :shock:





























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